From Burnout to $30M Success: Lessons in B2B Marketing That Work

Marketing-Led Growth vs Sales-Led Growth in B2B

Amrita Mathur: Thank you for having me. This is going to be fun.

Louis: Oh yes. So in the intro I didn’t say what we talked about before. So for people listening, I have a questionnaire and people and guests can answer some questions. And you mentioned a term called, you mentioned marketing led growth. Right. As a, you know, and so product led growth, sales led growth, community led growth, marketing led growth, customer led growth. I mean it just to be honest, it’s endless. Yeah, it’s endless. So what do you, where do you stand on that debate? And why are you using, are you using that term?

Amrita Mathur: Yeah, you know what, it’s maybe you know what, I hate to add more terminology to an already confusing landscape, but really what I mean by that is a big part of our company success. What I would say is kind of because we invested in marketing very, very early in an extremely big way. I think in B2B there tends to be this like, idea that, hey, to figure out product market fit, let’s invest in sales and sell a couple of deals and then when it’s proven itself, then we’ll bring in marketing. And I think we did it the other way around, which is part of how we revved the engine from day one. And that’s what I’m calling marketing led growth, which is weirdly uncommon at B2B. I don’t understand it, but it’s so uncommon. And I can tell more of that story if you’d like to.

Louis: Yeah. So why do you feel it’s uncommon in general in that space?

Amrita Mathur: I think it might be something to do with how companies think about efficiency and I think it might be to do with companies not necessarily having a well defined product, which is often the case with startups. Right. You don’t really know what the product is and you won’t really know how you’re going to achieve product market fit and who your ideal customer even is. But if you have a good hypothesis and you’ve run some experiments back in the day, and we did, right, like before even I was brought on, there was some experiments run before me that gave us a degree of confidence that there’s something here, let’s build this puppy out. And I think one of the other ingredients that was helpful in our case was that not only did we invest in marketing very early, from day one, we threw a lot of money at it, which, you know, in theory could go to having a lot of sales bodies and doing like the brute force style, go from company to company to try to figure out if that’s something that they would need. But we said, you know what, Like, I remember to this day, a CEO said to me, he used this line, he said, I don’t care about revenue. And this is crazy for a CEO to say, I don’t care about revenue, but I care about your rate of learning. And he was like, I want us to learn really fast and what is the best way for us to learn really fast? And, and that was like mass sort of marketing. We just blasted a bunch of stuff out there, invested a lot in performance marketing. I literally threw up like two landing pages and I just saw like, who was coming through the door, who was Actually booking demos with us. What were the talk tracks? What were the calls like? We just learned so quickly in four months. And then we knew what this thing was going to be when we grew up.

Louis: Great. Okay, well, I think it’s a good intro to everything I wanted to ask you, which is basically I want to make you come back to those days where you were hired or even before, because sometimes, most of the time, you talk to the company in depth before joining, especially at your role. And let’s tell that story, and let’s try to tell that story from, I would say, a vulnerable, authentic way. It’s way too fucking easy, especially marketing, to have this brilliant custody of. We’ve done everything so well and all of that. So I. I really want to, like, even though it’s painful, even though you might have forgotten some part, even though you might not want to share everything, I will challenge you to try to share as much as when it comes to the bad stuff, the stuff that failed, the stuff where you nearly got fired or that you were, like, very anxious and all that.

Amrita Mathur: Oh, I was nearly fired so many times.

Louis: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s just VP of marketing. That’s just what happens. Okay, so take me back to when you got hired at that stage, Superside, which is a company you work for. And actually, let me pause here. Let’s define what Superside does briefly so people understand the context.

Amrita Mathur: Sure, yeah. We’re essentially a design services and tech company that helps large teams, large marketing teams get design done. That’s basically it. And the place that we’ve chosen to play in is in this area of, like, full service design. So we’re not like a niche boutique shop. So it’s like full, like, anything under the sun you need from a design and creative purpose. You know, could be like, videos for your TikTok, all the way to, like, iconography, all the way to, like, a rebrand and the artifacts that come from that, all of that under the sun. And we’ve also chosen to kind of play in the. Let’s just call it campaign execution space. So we’re not gonna help you brainstorm and figure out, ooh, how to launch Coca Cola in Brazil. And you know what? That’s not us. But if you know how to launch that and you’re like, okay, I need this much for my Instagram reels, and this is what I need for my billboards and whatever those campaign artifacts are, we can help you execute that. And we’ve done it in a way that where, like, efficiency is at its Core and we’ve built like our own design ops platform to help enable all of that stuff.

Louis: I have a feeling you’re gonna sell that design ops platform one of these days as a software. I’m sure it’s one of the game plan. Sorry to share the secret out, but it sounds like it. Yeah. Anyway, so I wish I could afford it. It’s definitely not for like, you know, folks like me. It’s like for bigger brands. But fuck, I wish there was something like that where I could just do this because design wise, I’m shit anyway. So going back to the days when you started to talk about the founders, um, let’s. Let’s go to that place. So why did you join in the first place? Like, what, what was the discussion like?

From Burnout to Superside - The Career Pivot

Amrita Mathur: Yeah, it was, it was very. So I had already. I was like super burnt out from my last job and I had already decided to leave.

Louis: Why? What happened?

Amrita Mathur: Oh man. Like, hard to unpack everything and like, I think my body will start reacting to that, so you might see me shiver. But no, it was just, it was, it was, it was definitely like a boot camp. Like, I appreciate that part of it. It was like a hardcore boot startup boot camp. But I think as a company, the DNA did not love respect or value marketing. So I think the entire team was always in this mode of trying to prove its value and everything was an uphill battle. So that was one. And then there’s. There was other parts. You know, I think a number of people. Perhaps our CMO was poorly managed and sometimes, you know, people pass that shit down and that shit can like affect you. Anyway, we went through so many transitions and after like two and a half, three years of working there, I was just like totally done. I had developed insomnia. I wasn’t sleeping. It was like really bad. So I was just like, this is like, I could literally die, so this is not worth it. So. And I don’t have that much equity to like make it worth it. So I literally like decide. I woke up one morning and I was like, that’s it, I’m done. And I went into the office that day and I was like, peace out, I’m done. Like, I’m leaving. I gave my like 3 weeks notice or 4 weeks notice or whatever that was, and that’s it. And so then I went on this like long vacation to Europe with my family. Cause my nephew was turning one and like, my mom was like, let’s do the road trip. And like, it was like, me, my husband, my mom, all of Us in this like car together, going through countries and I was like, you know what I mean? I just met so many Europeans and I was just like, there’s a whole ecosystem here. Like, why have I never considered working for a European esque company? And it was so serendipitous and weird. But I got this email from a recruiter in my inbox and at that point I was just saying yes to every call and this recruiter just was so frigging prepared. He like sent me a deck about the company, he told me about the investors, the vision, and it was fucking built out. I was like, damn, these guys are prepared. So I was like, yes, I will absolutely take that call. And the first call was all of the founders together and I was in a hotel room in Prague. I was late for that call because I couldn’t find parking in Prague. It was, I felt so bad. I sent them an email and my Internet wasn’t working, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, we got on this call and the call was booked for like 45 minutes and I think we talked for like two hours. And like my mind was just like blown by like how big they were thinking and like the space that they wanted to tackle and, and how they weren’t like getting sucked into the usual, like I’m an agency or whatever, right? Like they had this vision. I was like, I’ve never done a super early stage startup before and I knew that I would have a lot of input into product strategy which is somewhere that I wanted to go. So I was like, you know what, I already don’t have a job, so fuck it. Like let’s just do this. Like what’s the worst that’ll happen? I’ll get fired in four or five months. Fine, whatever.

Louis: Yeah. And in Europe, it’s funny, like we have electricity, we have Internet, like there’s a lot. We have food, we have cows. It’s, it’s quite advanced civilization.

Amrita Mathur: Not like Canada.

Louis: Yeah, free health care in France.

Amrita Mathur: Well, yeah, free health care. But their retirement thing is under question now.

Louis: Yeah, yeah. Oh, don’t, don’t start. Okay, so what stage are we talking about? So you said early stage, so what? Where were they when you joined?

Early Stage Validation - From Pay-as-You-Go to Subscription

Amrita Mathur: There was nothing. There was like a sort of half assed design ops platform which we didn’t even acknowledge as a design ops platform. It was really just a way for us to funnel projects around and make sure like the right people were picking it up. So it was this very, very nascent and it was a very sort of kind of like what you were describing earlier, like almost like what I call like a pay as you go style service. You’re, you’re whoever Joe Schmo you could be at a big company, you could have your own podcast, you could be whoever off the street and you wanted some design thing done, you could just go to, you know, before supersight, we were called Consist. You could go to consist.com, punch in what you need and like you could say, oh my God, the deadline is, I need this for my keynote which is happening at 3pm tomorrow and literally in 12 hours we would turn something around. Right? So it was like this like really fast execution oriented design service that we had kind of tested with some companies, but it was mostly individual people just coming through the door. It wasn’t that different than a classic freelancer marketplace at the time. We would be more of a competitor of Fiverr.

Louis: Love it. That’s great. Because actually. No, that’s great. There’s so many questions now. So let’s start just before, for context, because I’m curious. I didn’t check that out actually. The founders, they obviously had experience before, right? In the startup world, right?

Amrita Mathur: Well, yeah, sort of. Yeah, I’d say so. I’d say so. I’d say like with. Yeah, so they all went through Y Combinator. Right. Like right before I joined. Before that, the CEO had co founded a actually fashion startup, Weirdly in Indonesia, which apparently did really well. And he got like a whole insight into like e commerce. And this actually came from his need. He was just like, I need so much creative and design and it’s virtually impossible to get good quality, high, you know, high quality, but fast turnaround design like that. There’s like something about the quality price and you know that triangle of like you can’t get all three, you can only get two. That’s the thing that was bugging him, right? And he was like, I’m gonna build this. Like, he was like, I’m gonna fucking build this.

Louis: Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, but you’re not, you’re not cheap. So there’s. There’s two out of the three.

Amrita Mathur: We’re not cheap, but we’re cheaper than the typical options available. We’re actually like, we settled at around 60 to $80 an hour. If you want to break it down into an hour.

Louis: Yeah. Which is. And then if you take into consideration the time spent and the worry and all of that, there’s other costs and just money, monetary. So I get totally cool. Okay, so that makes sense. So that came from a need, which is Always one of the best way to start something. So at the start you were targeting pretty much everyone, right? Which is.

Amrita Mathur: Yeah, it was like who. It was like all the search play, someone searching, whatever, I, you know, 24 hour turnaround for whatever, whatever keyword, you know, deck, video, what have you.

Louis: Oh, right.

Amrita Mathur: So it was just, it was mainly a search play and was like a very immediate need kind of thing. And the traffic that we were capitalizing on was like, someone like, is like urgent. Like I need this. Right, like right now. That was very much.

Louis: Sorry to cut you. Go ahead.

Amrita Mathur: No, no, no problem. So that was it. And of course, like the, as you can imagine, the recurring nature of that and the, the repeat customer nature wasn’t really there. Like sometimes people would come back to us cause they’d used us, they had a good experience and they were like, oh, six months from now, if I have need, I’ll go back to them. But there wasn’t like really like this like recurring thing. So it was just like a leaky bucket. Like, right, that, that, that’s what happens with all of these like services. Like, people come in, they use you, you operationalize that process. Maybe you’re super freaking efficient, have great margins. And then it’s like you never see them again. And it’s like, done. So when, when we were chatting, this is what they were. The founders were explaining and saying, like, we think there’s something here for businesses, not just like random individuals on the Internet. And we want to launch that, we want to pivot the service into something like that. And ideally it would be some kind of subscription. Those were the guardrails they gave me. They were like, that’s it, that’s what we think. And by the way, we’ve proven that the subscription thing has legs because there’s actually one. We had one customer who was like a big enterprise who had started to kind of almost use us in a subscription way.

Louis: Okay, very interesting. So let’s break that down. So when you say it was a search play, was it SEO, was it AdWords?

Amrita Mathur: It was both search SEO and AdWords. I’d say mostly AdWords. Extremely high. Like 90% or maybe more was from AdWords. And then of course, we had written some shitty blog post that weirdly got ranked.

Louis: Yeah, you can control the volume with AdWords. Like if you have money to play with, it’s quite easy, quote unquote, easy to get people in. Okay. So at this stage, their hunch was we have this one major enterprise client that is like almost paying a subscription to Us, we feel like there’s something that’s as much data as they had, right?

Amrita Mathur: That’s all they had. Yeah.

Louis: So that intuition, then you got hired. You’re probably quite scared about, like, shit, like, I’m gonna have to figure everything out.

Amrita Mathur: No, it was fun. I wasn’t scared. I just felt like it would be fun to figure this out. And one way or another, we would make money. Like, what’s the worst that would happen? We would just go back to, like, this, like, weird pay as you go model. Right? That’s the absolute worst. And we made that work. But I knew. I knew from a. Because in some ways, like, I am a buyer Persona for super side, right? Like, I run a marketing team and I know how much creative and design we do today. And even if I was a much, much smaller team with much less revenue, like, I would still need creative and design. So I just had a very good hypothesis for what the need was. And I think I knew very early that our main buyer would actually be a market Persona or two, not a creative Persona, which is historically who we thought would actually buy us. And I was just like, no, Actually, the main pain points and problems are with marketing. They’re in the creative team’s internal customer. That was actually very early insight that we proved out.

Building Buyer Personas Through Real Customer Interviews

Louis: Okay, so let’s break that down. Obviously, it’s been almost four years, and obviously the story kind of gets changed in people’s mind and we kind of round off the edges and all of that. But as far as you can recollect, that hypothesis of maybe it’s actually marketing people in bigger organization, how did you validate it? Did you interview customers? Did you just use your own intuition? What did you do specifically?

Amrita Mathur: Yeah, no, we had this intuition. We did a workshop where we just threw on a board every possible Persona that we could imagine that could use Superside. And we tried to classify them as would they be allies and influencers, or would they be the decision makers and actual buyers or. Or, hey, could they actually be blockers? Like, we had this one Persona that everybody was rallying around called Designer Dan. Kind of like the Figma model, where they were like, designer Dan, you know, it’s going to be like a bottoms up model. If Designer Dan loves us, then everyone else will love us. And I was just like, no, I think Designer Dan is going to be a blocker. I think that they’re going to be fearful of their role on the team and their job, and they’ll come around eventually, but I think in the initial stages, they Might be a blocker, which also actually got proven out. So we don’t sell to designer Dan today at all.

Louis: So that workshop that you organized, who was involved in that?

Amrita Mathur: So it was the founders. We had hired a creative director, our first creative director in the company who joined around the same time as I did, like shortly after. So it was her, me, the three founders. We had a VP of product at the time also who had just joined shortly after me. So it was him. Yeah, it was like a very small group. And we took, we took the, the work that came out of that output from that, and then I validated it with real life people. So everyone in my network that I could find that fit one of those profiles. So it could be my friends who were like VP of marketing. It could be like random creative directors that I was somehow connected to on LinkedIn. I literally emailed everybody. I literally LinkedIn everybody. And I was like, can I talk to you for 20 minutes? I just have a series of questions. And I think, I can’t remember exactly, but I think we sent out a survey to all of our paying customer, whoever had like done a project with us in the last year. We had sent out some kind of survey to just gather data as well. I don’t think that was actually very useful. But anyone that was like, you know, mid market enterprise person that fit those buyer Personas, I talked to, I think I talked to like over 50 people. And I gathered all that data to validate if our assumptions were right. I learned a lot of stuff along the way. Right. So in some cases we actually learned. We were like, oh, we were thinking about it this way, but actually it’s more like this, which was also interesting.

Louis: So let’s break that down. I’m just gonna go back to the workshop. How long did it take you, this workshop?

Amrita Mathur: I think we were in that workshop for like maybe like three hours max. So it was pretty quick.

Louis: How many Personas did you come up with?

Amrita Mathur: Oh my God, that was like the longest list, which was like a shit show. Obviously those are not Personas. Those are just like random titles. So then we did the work of coming up with what the Personas are. I even distinctly remember naming all of them on a ferry to an island. Because I was in Oslo to meet the team. So crazy and hang out, and we were just all on a ferry together. And this ride was like, whatever, half an hour long. We had nothing to do. So we were just like, oh, you know, we’re going to call this Persona this. And like, and it just started to come together. It was actually a really productive ferry ride.

Louis: Yeah. Oh, that would drive me insane. I’m actually allergic. I’m not allergic to anything. I’m not allergic to peanuts. Not allerging to dogs or cats. I’m allergic to fake shitty Personas that companies come up with in boardrooms. But I’m so glad that actually you didn’t stop there, because most people stop there, they use their fucking intuition and that’s it. And then they fail. So you came up with those, you know, cringy Persona, if you look for years after, right, this massive list, and you started to validate. So you reach out to your network, which is a smart move because it’s easier to get people to talk to, but they might be slightly biased. So how did you make sure not to bring too many of your assumptions into the deal when you were talking to people?

Amrita Mathur: Yeah, no, I think that happened. I think there’s also an art to interviewing, and I don’t think that I knew how to quite do that properly at the time. So there was a little bit of the leading of the witness. I think that had happened. But I was aware of it. I was aware that in some cases I led the witness. So I took everything that we learned with a grain of salt with the assumption that, hey, now we’re going to work on our website, throw up some homepage and some basic landing pages, and we’re just going to learn rapidly, right? So this was just to get us to the place where our website could act as a lead capture engine. That’s really all it was at the time.

Louis: So what if you can recall? Maybe if there’s one question you ask all the time or you learned a lot, what was it?

Amrita Mathur: Ooh, it was something around I wanted to uncover, like what their pains were. And I can’t remember how I phrased the question.

Louis: Take your time.

Amrita Mathur: Instead of like, you know, it’s, it’s hard to kind of ask somebody, hey, tell me about your process or what your pains were like. So I, I kind of, I think did it like a stepping stone approach. And I think I’m, I think I asked something like, hey, so what, what, what do you do? So like, now you have this great idea. You want to launch this new, you know, whatever, content marketing program or something, right? You’re a marketer, you’re, you’re, you guys have decided, oh, my God, we should do this thing. We. I want to launch a podcast, whatever. Tell. Walk me through how that process would work. And as they would do that Then I would poke holes, and it’s like, how would you do this? And then who would you go to for that? And what if the creative team says this? And it was easy for me to do that because I’d been in those shoes most of the time. Like, I was a buyer myself, so I could, like, poke a lot of holes, and then they’d be like, oh, yeah, that’s a bitch. And like, oh, my God. They always say no or, oh, my God. Everything takes, like, four weeks. And, like, I have to, like, get the request in there. Like, you know, went through their roadmap. Like, they started, like, saying these things where I was just, like, furiously, like, writing shit down. I was like, oh, my God. Like, okay. Five out of the 10 people I just talked to all complained about they have to, like, you know, conform to this, like, ticketing, like, process, and that’s how the creative team works. And I was like, that’s an insight that we can capitalize on that.

Louis: Right?

Amrita Mathur: So there was, like, these, like, little takeaways and patterns that started to develop. Not everybody said the same thing, but at least we validate it. It’s a pain, and marketers feel it the most, and they would love. Actually, the biggest insight was we realized that many of them would love to bypass the creative team entirely.

Louis: So that’s actually very interesting. So your intuition earlier on was those blockers the creative team is going to be blocking because they will be threatened. They feel threatened by.

Amrita Mathur: Or some people on the design team, not necessarily the head of Create. I think there was, like, two Personas that we still sell to a lot that we knew would be allies, which we call, like, the Design Ops professional. If a team is large enough, like Airbnb has an entire department of Design Ops people, they would be allies because we’re solving their pain, their acute pain, very well.

Louis: Right.

Amrita Mathur: So we knew that, and then we knew that the head of Creative and Head of Design, or whatever their title is, that they can think about the larger scope and the larger company. And so they wouldn’t be bloggers, but the individual designers could be. That was our hunch, which has somewhat proven to be true.

Louis: So. So did you find that out in the interviews, like, that. That, you know, some people said, like, how did you find that out? Like, the blocker, the designer as a blocker.

Amrita Mathur: That was. That was an intuition from the workshop. You know, we. I think. I think I was, like, the only person that thought that they would be blockers. And I actually didn’t interview any individual designers. I didn’t prioritize interviewing that group.

Louis: Right.

Amrita Mathur: And I think it just got proven out as we did business gotcha. Over time.

Louis: And the people you talk to, most of them said, yeah, they love to bypass the creative team because they are either slow.

Amrita Mathur: So I didn’t ask that question point blank. Right? So I was trying to see if I would ask questions like, if you could do whatever, you know, let’s say there was no, like, you had your own budget and whatever, how would you. What’s your ideal scenario look like? And a lot of them kind of said, oh, I just go find my own contractor or my own agency or I’d love to have someone on the creative team that’s dedicated and assigned to me. Things like that. So then we were like, oh, wait a second, we can actually sell to performance marketing teams because they need fast turnaround and ad Creative. They need 57 versions of the same winning Facebook ad, right? Oh, we can sell to content marketing because content marketing often owns social media and they’re always trying to crack new channels and like, they’re always under the gun because they can’t prove attribution. So there’s like a whole host of issues there. So they’re like, they probably would love that. So we just developed like, all of these, like, ideas for, like, what the main use cases and pain points would be. And that’s how the buyer Personas came to be. Like, we refined them after the workshop and the interviews and kept refining them. And I don’t think we actually rolled it out to the whole company until we had earned our first $4 million because they were all hunches. So until we had earned that, we were like, okay, now we know for reals. Now let’s dissect the data. Let’s see who we’ve actually sold to, who these people are.

Louis: So that’s really interesting. I love hearing those stories. I like the fact in particular that you knew there were hunches and you wanted to validate them before starting to communicate and say, hey, this is our strategy. This is the people we’re after, and this is where we should go about it. I was laughing when you were explaining the performance marketing stuff because I used to work for Hotjar and this is like, spot on. I remember the struggle it was to just get anything done design wise. It either took a while or it wasn’t really aligned with what we wanted and stuff always been a struggle. So I completely get it. It’s fun, but it’s one of those things. It’s one of those Problems. In retrospect, it sounds so fucking obvious, right? It’s one of like, it’s usually the good ideas are like that. In retrospect, it sounds really fucking obvious. Everyone listening would be like, duh, that makes sense. But then no one really did that before, right at the scale you did. So why do you think that is?

Amrita Mathur: That’s such a good question. I’ve actually never thought about that. I’m guessing, I’m guessing the, like the really smart companies solve the problem for themselves. You know, somehow like I’ve, I’ve looked at. There’s like a McKinsey report that came out earlier this year that was just kind of showing the investment that certain fast growing companies make in design and creative and like Nike, Netflix, like all the usuals, Airbnb, they’re on the list. So I think those kinds of companies recognize that this is a problem area and they figured out their own internal solutions so they don’t need external solution. And then there’s like a whole host of other companies that just deal with the bullshit and bureaucracy that it comes with. And maybe they’ve still done good business and maybe they’ve still grown really fast. But I think it’s probably been painful for their marketing teams and maybe they use a combination of agencies to accomplish the same. But it takes a lot of overhead and management. I did a win loss call with a customer they’ve turned since they called Odd Zero, which actually got acquired by Okta. Huge, huge, huge in tech and they had a huge internal team, they had a bunch of design ops professionals. They used two agencies and they use superside. So the, I can’t even imagine the volume of stuff that was coming down the pike for them. But I can, I can also see like all of this takes management, right? You know, like you got all of these agencies, you got this internal team, you’ve got like blah, blah, blah, like it’s, it’s complicated. And they might have come to some formula for thinking like, oh, if it’s like campaign oriented, I’m going to send it to this agency. If it’s execution oriented, I’m going to send it to Supersight, whatever. They came to some consensus around that. But that, that’s, that takes a lot of effort and overhead and some level of bureaucracy and not everyone’s up for that. And you know, look at, look at the, the environment now. Like everyone’s like laying people off and cutting down. Where do you think the cuts would happen? It would, it would happen. And the operational aspects of it, which again Kind of like makes the marketing team. It puts the marketing team in this like, weird position where you kind of have to execute but with your hands tied behind your back, which is like, really sad.

Louis: Yeah. And with insomnia every night and being anxious about your job.

Amrita Mathur: Yeah.

Louis: Which is not easy. Definitely not. So why, why do you think there was no competitor or anyone who did it that well? Like, my, my intuition, my hypothesis here is that it’s actually very difficult to do what you’re doing to actually get the talent to be able to churn things out so fast in good quality. So you need to have like such a tight process and all of that. Any other ideas?

Amrita Mathur: I think people have gone, gone at it with a different aspect. So the way I see the landscape is there’s like two, two buckets of, let’s call them competitors for the lack of a better word. There’s like the Fiverr style marketplace. Right. So the way they’ve solved it is, okay, we’re just going to be the middleman. We’re just gonna match up these people that have these like, requirements and, and match them up as best as possible with these like, really smart creatives. But we’re not, we’re not gonna manage that process. You guys find each other, you figure out your shit, Right. That’s basically their approach to solving it. But it’s not going to the deep problem that an entire team might have. It’s more like I think they, I think they can solve the individual need, but I don’t know, they can solve a team need or a company wide need. Then the second type of crop of companies that have come up is more in our space where they do sell to businesses and teams, but their approach has been more like, hey, I’m going to come up with a flat fee model. So, which is unlike the agency model. So I’m gonna charge you some flat fee, whatever, thousand bucks a month, and I’m gonna give you, quote, unquote, unlimited design. And I’m always like, in reality, how does that actually work? Like, how would unlimited design actually work for a thousand bucks or 2000 or whatever? The number is 10,000 bucks a month. How could it be unlimited? And so the brand promise there is you can get all your shit done for a flat fee, which is very predictable. But I think when shit hits the fan and you need like 10 things done at the same time, that’s actually not possible because those things are not happening in parallel. So I think there are companies that are trying to solve this problem, but they’re Just coming at it from very different angles. And maybe there are companies similar to Superside that we just haven’t come across. But I think we’ve chosen to go deep in one area. Right. We know who we’re not going after. I think that’s as important as saying who we are going after. We know exactly who we’re not going after and who we are not a fit for.

Louis: Yeah. So that’s a lesson in and on itself. So before we go into that, the present, right, where you have so much insight and you learned so much for the last three years and a half going back to that workshop. So you’ve done this Persona, this list of Persona and then you started to create. You said you created two landing pages, right?

The $50K Monthly Instagram Ads Experiment

Amrita Mathur: I think it was just too like a homepage. We had a pricing page and we had two landing pages. Most of the traffic to those landing pages came from paid social, which is what was a new channel that we launched to just try to learn rapidly.

Louis: Okay, so to learn rapidly you’ve decided to actually go to like Facebook ads, Instagram ads.

Amrita Mathur: Instagram ads, yeah, that worked beautifully for us. Yeah, Instagram in particular worked really well for us.

Louis: Okay, so. And why did you do that? Why did you go with that channel?

Amrita Mathur: We just wanted to. We didn’t want to do the slow burn thing. We wanted really good traffic, really fast and even if they weren’t good long term customers, we just wanted to know who the hell actually needs this and have those conversations. And it was a very simple landing page. It was like form above the fold, which is standard practice, particularly on mobile if you want to capture them. It had some very basic details of hey, addressing their pain points. And it showed three things that we were like different and better at. And that’s all it was. We didn’t talk about pricing or nothing. We just wanted them to like book the demo and then we wanted to have the call to see like, hey, what are they asking about what kind of titles these people are? Can we sell them? What is our win rate typically? And then eventually are they going to be happy with our service?

Landing Page Strategy and Messaging That Converts

Louis: How did you figure out the three things that you are different from the rest?

Amrita Mathur: Yeah, that was again a lot of it based. The messaging was like mainly based on all the interviews that we did. And like, like I said, we were very clear on who we’re not going after and who didn’t, who we didn’t want to be bundled with. So part of the, part of the appeal was we didn’t want to say like, oh, My God, agencies suck or anything like that. But we wanted to make sure that people understood we weren’t an agency. So like there was some subtle messaging in there that helped differentiate us. And actually to this day we get so many people, so many prospects that say, oh my God, I’ve been burned by this agency. I had them on my payroll for like whatever, two years and blah blah, blah. So we get a lot of disgruntled agency people that want to try a different model or a new model, which, which we proved again in the first four months.

Louis: And you said subtle messaging, like subtle words to imply stuff to remember what they were.

Amrita Mathur: I, I think I have mock up somewhere which I can send after. And you could.

Louis: So it was on your homepage.

Amrita Mathur: Was, was a little bit on the homepage, but I’d say like the landing pages were like a lot shorter and very particular because we know the attention span is like very little. Plus you’re opening up the page in platform. So like it kind of, it has to be very skimmable. So it was like a very stripped down, dumbed down version of everything that we said on the homepage. But I, I even remember the graphics we came up with to like, there was this one graphic where like a guy is like just floating on, in a, in a pool, in a floaty and he’s just like relaxed, you know that, that was like the illustration that we came up with because the message was around being like hassle free and convenient and simple. And the story I always told my friends was like, you know, do you remember those times like when we used to do like blah blah, blah and like I’d wake up at three in the morning and be like, holy shit, I need this thing for like tomorrow morning. And like, I was like, you can use Superside for that. You could if you are, if you’re on a subscription plan with Superside, you could like literally from your phone punch in blah, blah, blah, do the brief quickly and like by the time you wake up in the morning, it’s in your inbox. I was like, that is the power of supersight. And people be like, holy fuck, I need this now. Right? That was the reaction we used to get. That’s really what we were selling. So the iconography and the, and like the, the illustrations that we came up with always wanted to match what we were saying there. So there was this guy chilling, floating in the pool because he had extra time because like he had super side to help him. So we tried to round it out in that way.

Louis: So I’m actually going through. While you were explaining this, the Wayback Machine, so.

Amrita Mathur: Oh, nice. So smart.

Louis: Yeah, I know. That’s my job. Yeah. Do you.

Amrita Mathur: Are you able to share your screen? Let’s see what it looked like from 2019.

Louis: I don’t think I. I don’t think I can. That’s a good question. Hold on. Yeah, I can actually. The problem is. The problem is what the problem is. So if you’re listening to the podcast right now, I’m going to. I’m going to start. I’m going to describe.

Amrita Mathur: Oh my God, this is so old school.

Louis: Aw.

Amrita Mathur: See how cute it was?

Louis: So hassle free Design for Growing teams was the headline of the homepage. And then I can see that there’s.

Amrita Mathur: Oh, there’s a floaty guy.

Louis: Oh, there is.

Amrita Mathur: There he is.

Louis: There is. So there’s a floaty guy on a massive flamingo is actually green. An inflatable flamingo. So you have three main points that you’re making. There is like dedicated, dedicated team stack with top design. You have improved velocity and reduced surprises. So like the 12 to 24 hours turnarounds and build specifically for fast growing companies.

Amrita Mathur: And then, and then we had this objection handling statement, which was a lot of people would say, but I can just hire. And it’s like, yeah, go ahead. But like we’re 20x faster. Okay, how long are you. It’s going to take three months for you to hire like four designers and then you have to onboard them and then you have to worry about career tracking and blah, blah, blah. I was like, go ahead, please, if

Louis: you want to do it on board them. So okay, great. Okay. And then you have the form, but I feel like that’s already way too advanced. But anyway, I think that’s enough for now in terms of looking at it. Cool. Yeah, so that makes sense. So you did this Instagram ads. How much budget roughly did you put into them?

Amrita Mathur: If you can recall, it was quite a bit. I think we spent like something like 50k a month total in advertising and the bulk of it ended up going to Instagram and we still did like AdWords and whatnot. Eventually we shut it off because it just wasn’t. It was just bringing like mom and pop shops and like not the audience that we had decided to go after. So we eventually shut that down. But in the beginning we were still pumping money in there. So it was something like maybe 20, 25k would be Instagram, another 20k would be Facebook and the rest.

Louis: So what did you learn? So you Brought a lot of traffic there. What did you learn?

Amrita Mathur: Yeah, we just learned, like, generally we had a baseline for how people were converting. We would sometimes do messaging experiments to see if that actually changes the conversion on the page. We would run these in a very controlled environment. We obviously learned a ton from the actual conversations after they had booked the demo. So that was, like, all recorded. The sales team, which we had just newly assembled at the time to field some of these, they would share their insights back. We had a weekly meeting where we would talk about this very openly, and then that would loop back into homepage messaging and elsewhere and obviously the ad creative itself, the kinds of things we were seeing on the ad creative.

Louis: Okay, so if you can recall, what was the number one insight that you learned from all of this? Maybe from your sales team as well, or maybe if you have more than one. One.

Amrita Mathur: Yeah. Like, hard to kind of remember all the details, but I think it was that. But there was a bunch of things. I think we knew that. And this is also kind of obvious in retrospect, but, like, we knew that we need.

Louis: We.

Amrita Mathur: We couldn’t have one size fits all messaging and that we really just needed to think about. There was like these two factions that were developing, which is like the marketing faction and the creative faction. And sometimes creative teams reported into marketing teams, but not always. Sometimes they’d have a centralized design team for the whole company. Right, right. And they acted more like a service provider to all of these different teams. And the dysfunctions between these teams and the pain points were starting to emerge. So, you know, we just started to learn about, like, the language to use with them. What are their typical pains. Oh, how do we want to talk about, you know, if we’re talking to somebody in a centralized model versus a decentralized model, like, how do we want to talk to them? Those were the kind of insights that we mostly gathered. Like, the more tactical stuff we were implementing literally on a weekly basis.

Louis: What did you do next?

Scaling from Performance Marketing to Content and ABM

Amrita Mathur: Yeah, so then we said, okay, great performance engine is working. We’re learning a lot. Tons of people coming through the door. I couldn’t do all of that myself. I’m not a deep performance expert. Like, I’ve done it, but I’m not like a super expert. So we were like, okay, let’s hire, like, let’s, you know, hire somebody who can, like, who’s like, super expert, and let’s build this, like, crack team, because this is a channel that’s going to work well for us. And it’s to. To this day, it’s like, you know, our number one channel overall. And it has a lot of lift from all the brand and content marketing work that we do, obviously. So our payback period is like well under 12 months, so on and so forth. And a lot of that’s the efficiency from performance. So that was the first thing. The second thing we decided to do is like, really invest a lot in organic. We were like, we want organic traffic. What is the best, greatest way to do that? Instead of just doing all the classic SEO stuff, we said, let’s actually build a proper content marketing engine. So those were the next few hires. And then that was also extremely experimental. We were just like, you know, should we do the traditional blog thing? You know, should be like, do like some gated, like extremely high value, highly researched content. There was all these different, should we invest in YouTube? TikTok was still kind of like coming into the US back then. This is like four years ago, right? So we were just like, should we do invest there? That there’s all of these conversations happening. So we just started tackling everything one by one. We were like, okay, we’re going to do a blog, but it’s going to be from a search lens and almost entirely from a search point of view. Okay, great. We’re going to start doing some, some lightly gated content. But it has to be extremely high value because if someone’s going to give us their email address and identify who they are, it has to be like really amazing. It has to land well and that should have high conversion to demo booked. So we just put all these programs in place and started investing in them alongside that. So then we had two machines, right? We had the performance marketing machine. Then we had built this like, content marketing machine that was great for top of funnel and great for sales enablement. And then third, a year or two later in 2020, we started experimenting with the quote unquote ABM or ABX machine, which is start thinking about accounts, like at the account level and saying, are they showing intense signals? Is it worth our company going after them in a big way? And if yes, what is the playbook for that? And so that’s the third machine we built. Really everything we do is in these three areas.

Louis: Okay, so you learn from those landing page and early Instagram ads who you kind of don’t want to go after. Right. Which is as important, if not more important, as you said before, then you started to scale that a bit. But I’m curious about the transition from that point where you learn all of this to the point you are today. So how did you start dabbling down on like larger enterprise type companies?

Breaking Into Enterprise - The Facebook Case Study

Amrita Mathur: Yeah, you know, it actually kind of became an interesting forcing function. You know, we. We started looking at retention curves and it was like kind of again, so obvious, but we didn’t know for sure. But the retention on enterprise customers was just like way, way, way, way better. Like the LTV is like 36 months or more. And then we also realized that the expansion, which we weren’t thinking about in the first couple years, the expansion opportunity between those exp. Those enterprise accounts was like a lot more like one of our early. I think we signed Facebook in or Meta now in. I think it was like our first big enterprise customer. When was it? I think it was in 20. Yeah, it was like in 2020. I remember we launched this guide in like Jan or Feb. This person, this creative director from Facebook downloaded it. We just like did like a light touch email drop and like a sales rep just like tried to reach out and said, hey, what’s up? Like, that’s it? No sales. We were just like, hey, what’s up? Did you find value from this guide? It was a very chill conversation. They actually ended up getting on the phone. I’m not sure why. I think she was just curious. Nothing happened for three months. Three months later, Facebook is launching all new design for, you know, those event modules that they have inside Facebook. Like you can create a birthday party event or whatever. They were launching like whatever, 10,000 of them. And they were like, we need to think about this as a provider needs to provide, make all of these event banners and creative around it. And she just thought of us as a point solution for that specific project. She called up this. She like wrote us back and then we were like, yep, we can help you with that. And that got our foot in the door. And then they became like a subscription for like various other things. But it came from like this very innocent conversation from a guide about. I don’t even remember what. I think it was like some ad design guide or something.

Louis: So is this how you got your first kind of big, big clients through that? Like through inbound first?

Amrita Mathur: I mean, yeah, I’d say like we were like 100% inbound. Right? So the way that we’d set up the process to just for context is like marketing was like the awareness and prospecting machine. And then when someone actually raised their hand and said, I want to demo, then we would hand off to sales with some qualification criteria. And of course, if that didn’t become an Opportunity, we’d get recycled back to marketing. So we had that nice little system built and it was a very small number of sales reps, like four or something. So we had extremely tight feedback loops with each of those reps. So that was helpful. But yeah, like our first few enterprise customers other than the one that was with us from the consist days, came through these like various. Like this, like more like classic top of funnel brand awareness and content marketing. And that just told us that, hey, they can be acquired. Hey, there are specific needs that we can actually solve for and keep them. You know, actually provide value to the customer. Not just sell them, but actually provide value to the customer and that, oh my God, we can expand within these accounts because they’re gigantic. So like, I don’t know, five teams inside meta use us now, right? Not that original team, but like five other teams. So you just. Every year you just like expand, you spread. And we’re making changes in our platform right now. So some of that’s automated, so we’re taking a very PLG approach to that. But yeah, in the early days it was like all brute forced.

Louis: Yeah. How did it feel for you to have after like that burnout experience? Experience before on the shitty company you work for before? I mean, I’m saying that. You didn’t say shitty. I said it to like go to a place where you got those massive wins. Because I’m sure you were absolutely delighted to get that big account coming through.

Working for Marketing-Forward Leadership

Amrita Mathur: Yeah, yeah, I think while it was happening, I didn’t. I personally didn’t think about it that much. I. Yeah, you know, I think I’m an optimistic person generally. But you know, I also know that things just fade very quickly. Right. Like no marketing hack lasts a long time. Just because it happened once and Facebook came through, it’s not going to be like necessarily repeatable motion. Like, I just know that that may not be the case. So you just kind of keep planning for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. So it’s just like this like experimental mindset and like a bit of like a realist mindset, you know, sometimes just. Just knowing that it not everything’s going to work out the way you imagine. But listen, I will say I think what Superside ultimately did without trying, but what it did for my confidence and mental health was really remarkable because I felt like here is a company that not only likes and loves and has invested in marketing, but we are bringing the bacon home. We are actually doing that and it’s unquestionable, like the data shows that the numbers show it, like, it’s just like not never even been a question. And in fact, in 2022, last year, we had just raised around in December 2021, like our first proper funding round. We didn’t even need the money, but we raised it because money was so cheap. Like our CEO said to us, he was just like, just plan for growth, like you really need to plan for hyper growth and just like go higher like crazy. He pushed me a lot, like to hire and invest in stuff that was like extremely long term, which is not usually how I personally operate because I’m always like skeptical and always like trying to like watch everything and like trying to keep the payback period, like, you know, under like 8, 10 months and stuff like that. He was like, he was like, go. Just like, you need to go, you need to go faster. So it was liberating, you know, it was liberating and, and on. And the layer, the, you know, the, the layers of the cake, you know, they, they eventually stack up. And like one of the other layers at this company is that it’s just generally extremely. There’s no good word for it but like kind of like transparent and kind of, you know, like even hard decisions are made with like a level of kindness. And. And it’s also this very transparent. So they’re all like the founders, all Norwegian. So like that scandi style of working has trickled down the whole company. So they call a spade a spade. You know, for some people it’s borderline rude. Right? Like, some people are like, whoa. Like, oh my God. But it’s like, it’s like, you know, you know exactly where you stand, you know, exactly if you’re doing a good job, you know, if we’re doing a bad job, you know, like, you know, so I appreciate that. I. I mean, I hope that every company I ever work for is going to be like that.

Louis: Yeah, for Europe. Do you have a hot stop in two minutes?

Amrita Mathur: I don’t.

Louis: Okay, so do you mind if we go over for five?

Amrita Mathur: Absolutely, yeah, for sure.

Louis: So thanks so much, by the way, for being so transparent about the process. I think that’s really interesting for people listening and not necessarily just people who want to be like you. Meaning, like, you know, startups want to grow fast and whatever. But I think what you shared, especially at the beginning, about the market and the assumptions and testing them also is very valid for even freelancers, agencies, like small agencies, because it’s really about like, as you said, who you shouldn’t focus on Learning as you go. And you. Yeah, having this tight idea of who you’re going after. I guess the learning I have from what you shared so far is that the success of Superside and the way you were able to grow that fast is because the founders got marketing. They understand marketing clearly. They really understand what it is. Right. And a lot of times folks like you really struggle in companies because they don’t get it. They think it’s like promotion, and they forget that marketing should and will have a seat at the table for product strategy and all of that stuff. So what will be your tip, your number one tip, your number one kind of advice for the VPs of marketing out there who are struggling because their CEO, their founders don’t get marketing?

Advice for VPs of Marketing in Non-Marketing Companies

Amrita Mathur: Yeah. I think that first of all, if you have the ability to do this, and I know not everyone has the opportunity and the job market is the way that it is right now, you know, if you can try to look for companies that have a proven track record of investing in marketing and at least someone in a position of power, like, doesn’t have to be the CEO. Right. And marketing may not even report to the CEO, but, you know, someone in a, you know, strong influencer position gets marketing. They don’t have to know the ins and outs of it. I wouldn’t say my boss, the CEO knows every aspect of marketing, but he values it at a fundamental level. So try to, like, gauge that in your interview process and try to work for companies that get that or that you think you can lead, help them get there. And then the second thing I would say is, like, I think it’s. I think it’s easy to, like, hide and cower and always try to prove your worth. Like, like, that’s. I think poorly managed marketers often end up adopting that stance, that posture, which I did at my last company, and I’ve learned from that. I think. I think it’s just. I think you just lead. If you just lead with the assumption that everything you’re doing is the right thing and this company absolutely needs marketing and adopt a slightly different posture, hopefully people will come around to that. That confidence can definitely help. And you need to be able to tell that story. You need to be able to show the data. You need to be able to tell the story. I love going to town halls and saying, hey, we won this deal. Let me tell you how we won this deal. And I’ll go through, literally, first they came to the blog and then they did this, and then this rep reached out. I try to tell those stories as much as possible. So adopt that sort of posture rather than hide in a corner, which some of us have done, myself included. And I would say, like, listen, like, learn from my mistakes. Like, life is too short. I mean, the pandemic basically showed the light. Like, life is too short. You don’t need to be at these companies that don’t value your brain trust and your ip, like, you just absolutely don’t need to be there. So if you can afford to leave and go somewhere else or, hey, even better, do your own thing, all the power to you.

Louis: Well, yeah, that. Very good tips. I have nothing to say. Usually I can add stuff. None of us. Yeah, I completely agree. What would be the top three resources you’d recommend, folks listening today?

Amrita Mathur: Oh, kind of depends on what industry and stuff you’re in. But I just generally love spicy takes. So I like this one newsletter that this guy Brendan Hufford sends out. I think it dropped drops every week or every, you know, maybe twice, twice a week. It’s called Growth Sprints. Just the one from the other day was like this CMO says story crushes tactics, right? And it’s. And he always picks like one story to go deep in and then they’ll always kind of like, say they talk about like a few other trends that are happening in the market, etc. So I love reading that newsletter because it’s the kind of thing that you read, like, I don’t know, maybe on the toilet. Like, it’s like funny. Like, it’s kind of like, yeah, it’s like boards like edutainment. You know, it’s like educational but entertainment. And, you know, everything’s like, I love, like when things are like zero click content, you know, like, everything’s in the email. I don’t need to click out and go somewhere else. That’s just like easy skimmable. So I love his stuff. I. I follow a lot of what I would consider like Smart people on LinkedIn and Twitter. I learned a lot from them. And like, I think, you know, I think you don’t have to be like, active on social media. Like, you don’t necessarily have to contribute, but if you have, if you build, if you curate your smart people circle, like, you can actually learn a lot from them just from like observing how they do things. Like, I love how, for example, Amanda Natvidad frames her tweets. The way that she writes. I don’t, I just don’t understand, like, how she does it, but the way she frames the.

Louis: Them.

Amrita Mathur: Some, some of her ideas are very, very standard and simple and. But the way she frames them is, like, beautiful. Right. So what my learning is not necessarily about what she’s talking about, but the how she’s talking about it.

Louis: Y.

Amrita Mathur: So, like, copyrighting chops, right? I. I picking that up from her. So that’s another one. And then, you know, there’s. There’s like a ton of podcasts that won’t necessarily be applicable to your, like, day to day, but sometimes they’ll just, like, spark some other idea and stuff. So, like, I listen to podcasts about, I don’t know, like, music, you know, sometimes like, culture. I also like, weirdly, don’t shoot me, but I really like the Masters of Scale podcast. I don’t even know why, because it’s. Some of the subject matter there is just like, yeah, like, this is applicable to, like, two Fortune 500 companies, maybe. Right. But, you know, sometimes it just sparks an idea. So I like to listen to, like, the Reid Hoffman podcast.

Louis: I love the fact that you knew that I didn’t like it and we didn’t talk about it.

Amrita Mathur: It’s just like. Yeah. And it’s just. Yeah. And it’s not gonna. It’s not gonna, like, give you, like, tools, like, right away. It’s not an actionable kind of podcast, but, you know, it’s kind of nice to, like, zoom out a little and be like, absolutely. What do these Fortune 500 companies, how do they operate? What are the things that they think about? And, oh, my God, there’s like, there was like, this woman one time who was like, had like, this weird title, and I was like, wow, there’s jobs like that. You know, it can help you with aspiration and things like that.

Louis: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, you should absolutely expose your brain to, like, information from completely outside of your little circle and stuff. I completely agree. That’s a great advice as well. Amrita, you’ve been a pleasure. Honestly, it’s been really, really interesting conversation. The. The time flew by, which is why I asked you if you had a hard stop. I didn’t realize. Which is always a good sign. I hope you’ve enjoyed yourself as well. Thank you so much for taking the time. Where can people connect with you, learn more from you?

Amrita Mathur: Yeah, I’m on both LinkedIn and Twitter. Amrita Mather. Just find me there. DM me if you have any, you know, thoughts or comments or questions or if you have a similar story, I’d love to learn. And yeah, like, Louis, like, this was so fun. And, you know, I love that you’re like a. You. You don’t care about, like, the veneer of what a podcast host should look like and do. And say, what do you mean?

Louis: Do I look ugly? Like, I’m not well presented?

Amrita Mathur: No, you’re. Well, I mean, you’re. You’re chill. Like, you’re not like, in this, like, whole attire, like your background. I don’t know. I just feel like the, the veneer aspect of it, like, I feel like I’m talking to a friend, basically, is like, what it really comes down to.

Louis: We just become best friends. Yeah, maybe.

Amrita Mathur: Can you give me your number? I’ll text you every day some random ideas.

Louis: Yeah, I know you would. So I’m not going to give you my number. The, like, the way I approach this podcast and thank you for saying that the way I approach it briefly is I’m not trying to make you look good. That’s kind of the thing. Like, I’m not trying to make my guests look good. I’m just trying to get insights from you. So if I cross you, if I like, if I ask you a question that make you like, cringe a bit or you don’t want to say, like, I don’t care. You know, that’s kind of the. The vision I had for it. And it works really well because, yeah, it forces you to ask the right question, not just to make you look good. I think that’s one of the way. Anyway. Amrita. Yeah. You’ve been really a pleasure. Amini, thank you so much for your time.

Amrita Mathur: Thank you so much. Have a great day.

Louis: And that’s it for another episode of Everyone Hates Marketers Dot com. Thank you so much for listening. I’m super, super grateful. I’d love for you to consider subscribing to my daily newsletter Monday to Friday called Stand the Fuck Out Daily. I send very short, hopefully interesting, surprising, shocking, entertaining content to help you stand the fuck out. It’s ateveryonehates marketers.com you can subscribe for free and obviously unsubscribe whenever you want. I’m just going to read a couple of emails that I got recently as a reply. Juma said, your content attacks the mind primarily, which is such a good thing because most of us are skilled at what we do, but we don’t have the courage to do it our way. Mark, who just subscribed couple days before, said, this is my first issue of your newsletter. Love it. Glad I subscribed. Brianna said, I just realized this morning that my email habit is now to 1 skim through the list. 2 select all unread industry email except your yours. 3. Delete and don’t think twice. 4. Quickly scheme yours. Amy said, Also loving the new content is coming from you. It feels really lovely. Campbell Said, I like your writing a lot. It really resonates. There’s so much out there. It’s good to touch the authentic. And Chloe said, Where is the I love this email button? Brilliant. I hope you subscribe. You’ll be joining more than 40,000 subscribers at this stage, which is crazy. It’s the size of a small stadium. Anyway, thank you so much. See you on the other side.